Posts by Cold Steel

34

What do you think is the source of your consciousness? Can it be copied or transferred?

by EndofMysteries in

this seems to be a question that even scientifically is still in the air.

right now your consciousness, is it the physical part of the brain?

the electrical signals in the brain?

Cold Steel

You completely described a coded thought process that could easily be implemented into AI.

Agreed...AI could do that. But would it? AI can give a wonderful emulation of intelligence. You can program it to act frightened in the face of danger or grieved in the loss of a person or animal. But it can't learn to actually feel danger or grief.

There would have to be some curiosity on its part or why would our AI go through the trouble of alarm over detecting a flying object it couldn't identify? Even if it's programmed, the UFO would come across as UNKNOWN. The robot might catalog it, note the location, estimated speed, direction and time, but it can't feel anything. The UFO could land on the lawn of the White House and a Bigfoot could come out of it and our AI robot could feel no more than a toaster! Sure, it could be designed and programmed to act surprised, but code can't feel. The experience can't elicit an emotional response.

To understand intelligence, we must first define it. Going back to Flynn's book, he notes that's one of the primary problems. He recounts some questions and answers with Soviet peasants back in the 70s and recognizes that despite cognitive differences which make the answers hilarious to us, they made perfect sense to them. Even so, they knew the difference between analytic and synthetic propositions, but did not employ the same understanding of logic. "Pure logic cannot tell us anything about facts; only experience can," Flynn writes.

Q: What do a chicken and a dog have in common?
A: They are not alike. A chicken has two legs, a dog has four. A chicken has wings but a dog doesn't. A dog has big ears and a chicken's are small.
Q: Is there one word you could use for them both?
A: No, of course not.
Q: Would the word "animal" fit?
A: Yes.

It's a great book. Hadn't read it for a while; I'm glad the topic came up.

20

How can Jesus be the head of the Jehovah's Witnesses

by Watchtower-Free in

.

Cold Steel

Well actually, Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same.

Both are the First and the Last
Both will come to judge the world and all on it.
Both will come to the Mount of Olives.
Both will destroy the wicked at the time of their coming

When Adam fell, the Father (El Elyon) could no longer deal directly with Man. Jehovah became the Mediator between Man and God. Because he died for the sins of the world, he became Man's advocate with the Father. In Zechariah 12-14, it's clearly Jesus' return that is being prophesied. Read also Ezekiel 38-39. Same event.

62

What Happens To You When You Die?

by minimus in

jw
friends

are our dead loved ones watching over us at all or are they really just gone now?

Cold Steel

Everything stated on this matter is opinion, whether atheistic or religious.

As the ancient church was foundering, various church daters came forward to report what they remember the apostles saying. Origen wrote in the third century: "After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of learning or school of the spirits, in which everything they did on Earth would be made clear to them." This seems to jive with many near death experiences where people report seeing or experiencing "life reviews" -- a not altogether pleasant examination of the right and wrong things one did while they were alive.

This is my view.

However, there's the famous Roman epithet:

I Was Not,

I Was,

I Am Not,

I Care Not!

34

What do you think is the source of your consciousness? Can it be copied or transferred?

by EndofMysteries in

this seems to be a question that even scientifically is still in the air.

right now your consciousness, is it the physical part of the brain?

the electrical signals in the brain?

Cold Steel

Fisherman: Cofty is right about your post even if it was't mormon gibberish it would still be just the same, gibberish -or rubbish. Anyway, that is how I see it.

That's what I find so remarkable about you guys. I can accept your opinions as your views. I may think your views are garbage and ill-conceived, but I don't leave posts with name calling because I don't like them. I assure you that I do not have a high regard of Cofty or his views. I assure you that I find them just as nonsensical as he finds mine.

But that's where intelligence comes in. Code is free of opinions (save those of the one who writes it). Code cannot come to a determination of truth; it only can say, "If A is true, then 1F." Code cannot believe in God or anything else. In the early 70s, my mother and I saw two UFOs over the night skies of Washington, D.C. Intelligence doesn't always come up with the correct conclusions. Some might conclude (as we did) that we simply didn't have enough information to reach an explanation. But others may conclude they were extraterrestrials, or interdimensional, craft. Others might immediately conclude they were secret government aircraft, or some that they were simply hallucinations. But code can only conclude they were simply unidentified, without eliciting the least curiosity afterwards.

In short, intelligence is often accompanied by what others see as irrational conclusions. There's a point of view aspect wholly lacking in intelligence.

34

What do you think is the source of your consciousness? Can it be copied or transferred?

by EndofMysteries in

this seems to be a question that even scientifically is still in the air.

right now your consciousness, is it the physical part of the brain?

the electrical signals in the brain?

Cold Steel

EndOfMysteries: Are our actions really random? Our moods are based upon a release of chemicals in our brain, dopamine, etc. Our actions and reactions are based upon past experience, memories, stimulus of the senses, etc. A robot could be programmed to learn like a human, and if a reward system was programmed to match a human, then I think it's very possible for it to become self aware and learn as a person, but even exceed our intelligence.

No, our actions are not random at all. They may be affected by various brain chemicals and systems, but I don't believe they cause intelligence as much as simply affect it. In recent studies, molecular imaging in conjunction with positron emission tomography are enabling researchers to now track levels of serotonin and endogenous opioids (naturally-occurring pain killers), determining how the brain functions (and malfunctions) when responding to environmental disruptions of a person's work, social, and family life. It also allows researchers to gague the effects of various treatments of abnormal brain functions.

Just today there's news that man's brain is far more comprehensive in its abilities than previously thought.

In an attempt to understand and measure the brain’s synapses, whose shape and size have remained mysterious to scientists, researchers at the University of Texas, Austin and the Salk Institute worked together to determine that the brain’s memory capacity is much larger than previously understood. The results, published in the journal eLife, estimate that an individual human brain may store as much as a petabyte of information—perhaps 10 times more than previously estimated, and about the equivalent of the World Wide Web.

All that horsepower and nowhere to crank it up!

Not only is the diversity of synapses they observed in such a small brain region surprising, the storage capacity of each is “markedly higher than previous suggestions,” write the authors. Prior to this, researchers believed an individual synapse was only capable of storing 1 to 2 bits of information. This suggests we may have underestimated the memory capacity of the brain, which has trillions of synapses, "by an order of magnitude."
According to lead author Terry Sejnowski, in whose lab the study was conducted, "Our new measurements of the brain’s memory capacity increase conservative estimates by a factor of 10 to at least a petabyte, in the same ballpark as the World Wide Web."

This raises an interesting field of study for evolutionists who must now consider just why that horsepower exists and how it developed. I'm just fascinated that it's there.

34

What do you think is the source of your consciousness? Can it be copied or transferred?

by EndofMysteries in

this seems to be a question that even scientifically is still in the air.

right now your consciousness, is it the physical part of the brain?

the electrical signals in the brain?

Cold Steel

Cofty: Mormon cult gibberish.

Y'know, Cofty, your lack of substance is more than made up for by your childish oblique. As someone once said, abuse is a weapon of the vulgar.

34

What do you think is the source of your consciousness? Can it be copied or transferred?

by EndofMysteries in

this seems to be a question that even scientifically is still in the air.

right now your consciousness, is it the physical part of the brain?

the electrical signals in the brain?

Cold Steel

In my belief system, intelligence is what you're referring to. As I understand and believe, intelligence is eternal. It is one of two elements that exist in the Cosmos. The other is matter. One acts and the other is acted upon. Intelligence comes in many grades and is co-eternal with God. We all existed as intelligences before we were spirits, and we all were spirits before we were flesh, and because of Christ we will be resurrected as perfect physical beings of great power and glory -- but not all will be equal. In other words, intelligence cannot be created nor destroyed. Animals aren't as intelligent as humans, and cats are more intelligent than dogs. It's just the way things are. Even humans differ in intelligence just as celestial bodies differ from terrestrial bodies.

That said, artificial intelligence apes real intelligence, but it can't feel, nor does it have (nor can it be made to have) self awareness. It would be a fascinating field if intelligence could be created in a laboratory, but it can't. That doesn't mean we should stop studying and building upon artificial intelligence, as I believe it holds great potential, but intelligence is more than code. Code reacts predictably to input unless it is written to react randomly. Intelligence often reacts randomly, but not because of code; it's frequently unpredictable and irrational. Yet it can learn from experience. Code can try one thing, then another, and can even predict, but it can't feel. It can't be guided by emotion such as fear or love no matter how well you can program.

My religious views are my own and I certainlyI can't prove them. But my non-religious views, above, are surely open to debate. If you haven't read it, I recommend a book entitled What Is Intelligence? by James R. Flynn. One of the things he reports is that real intelligence, flawed by our physical limitations, is yet capable of great expansion and growth. Humans, for example, can be motivated to progress. Our experiences and how we respond to them mold us into who we are, which may be why we're here. Code can't improve or progress, nor form opinions. Flynn notes: "If people have adopted the language of science and use logic and the hypothetical freely, why do so many of them believe nonsense about the Loch Ness monster, flying saucers, astrology and so forth? The answer is that scientific language and abstract argument can be used just as easily to defend nonsense as sense.... The vocabulary and habits of mind fostered by science do not automatically engender critical acumen or wisdom. They provide a foundation but much has to be done to build a temple of reason on that foundation."

So I suppose that's why there are so many religions and personal beliefs in the world. Atheists think religionists are nuts and religionists, in many cases, consign atheists to a neverending hell because they don't believe as they do. There are Muslims, Mormons, Methodists, Mennonites and many other beliefs. And I don't believe code can ever form criteria enough to form any sort of opinion. Even Flynn calls "flying saucers" "nonsense" when many intelligent people, including highly trained NASA astronauts, believe in them.

34

The Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body are Elitists (Here is why)

by Terry in

an "elite" group is one which has special privileges not granted to others.. and obscurantist elite, is a group which hides information by virtue of its own claim to be special and a sole source in dispensing necessary truths.. to wit:.

the gb's elitism shines through in articles such as this:.

“thus the bible is an organizational book and belongs to the christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals , regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the bible .

Cold Steel

Members of the Governing Body like to think of themselves as akin to the Quorum of the Twelve in ancient days.

Of course there are just a few differences:

The apostles were called and ordained by Jesus Christ
They were given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven and thus could bind on heaven and earth
The first Twelve will judge the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and the following apostles will be judges under them

When the WTS disfellowships a person, the assumption is made that if that person dies in an excommunicated state, or condition, that the cutting off will be recognized by God and they will be deresurrected at the judgment. This infers that the WTS has the ability to bind and loose, and that if they do it here, it will be an action that's honored by God in Heaven. (Otherwise why sweat it?) But when were the GB members called? And who laid hands upon them to give them the power? "For you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you," the Lord said to them. Did he ordain the members of the GB? Not that we know of. Have they had visions, entertained angels, been taken into Heaven and seen unspeakable things? Yet the least of the GB members is greater than John the Baptist, one of the greatest prophets who ever lived.

In my view they have elevated themselves higher than Nimrod ever imagined. So don't be surprised if what they say is elevated as well.

3

👑 He Who Is Least In The Kingdom of Heaven....

by Cold Steel in

jesus said that of all those born of women, none were greater than john the baptist.

nevertheless, he added, he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

universally nearly all scholars have taken this to mean that because jesus had taken upon himself the sins of the world, he had the last claim upon the kingdom of heaven.

Cold Steel

Jesus said that of all those born of women, none were greater than John the Baptist. Nevertheless, he added, he who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.

Universally nearly all scholars have taken this to mean that because Jesus had taken upon himself the sins of the world, he had the last claim upon the Kingdom of Heaven. But because he was perfect and without sin, he was greater than John. Jesus also said the greatest of all is the servant of all. He, being the greatest of all, is the servant of all in that he died for us and brought salvation to all men.

Now the WTS has the strange doctrine that because John the Baptist isn't of the Heavenly Class, those who are, even the least of them, will be greater than John. This means that every member of the Governing Body is greater than John. Even Aunt Edna, who takes the Memorial emblems each year, is greater than John the Baptist, one of the greatest prophets of all time.

To those of you who are still active, does this really make sense?

24

"You don't go to church in a Kingdom Hall"

by stephanie61092 in

"you don't go to church in a kingdom hall" was stated during the public talk yesterday.

the speaker then elaborated that "people who go to church, go to fulfill a spiritual obligation.

coming to the kingdom hall is coming to learn.

Cold Steel

The only engaging process is when people raise their hands to answer questions with underlined answers straight from the material, maybe with a little personal flair.

What would happen if one did raise questions that were a little tougher to answer? I assume you can ask questions freely there, can't you? Don't you ever have any investigators attend? What questions would be considered inappropriate to ask? From what little I understand, members feel pretty free to counsel other members, even when not asked for their input.

What kind of questions could get one into trouble?